The debate for the measurement for greatness is going. What do you guys think? Is it gold that makes one great, or the respect and admiration of everyone involved?
Krysten seems like the only one with immediate short-term goals, but don’t think she’s not thinking long-term either.
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This is going to end badly for Krysten isn’t it?
Totally unprecedented!
We catch up to real time next update so you can see for yourself. 😉
Let’s throw Miss Humble there into the middle of a battle royal and see how good she really is.
I don’t think any of the Upstart ladies have ever been in a battle royal. Yet.
At this point, it doesn’t surprise me that Sun is the smartest person in the room.
Sun has ALWAYS known what she wanted and has had the discipline and focus to go after that. Of course, that BFF of her tends to cause more headaches then needed. XD
Truly such time has pass for the girls and it seemed that both Sabrina and Sun have achieved their own unique goals. That is after all the trouble that they got involved in.
Still, they’ve achieved their goals while Krystin is sadly stuck at the bottom of the barrel.
Besides everyone knows it’s hard work and determination that gives you the respect of your fans and peers.
The way I see it, sabrina’s almost there in terms of headlining the card, still not quite there though. Sun hasn’t got a single belt yet in the company, and with camille being introduced, that goal of hers seems to be getting further away, although she can still do it. Krystin is as far away from her goal as possible, there’s probably around 7-8 people above her right now, and I can’t see her getting ahead of yvonne, brenda, sabrina, camille and nikki. Brooke, well, in terms of her assets, she got to where she wanted: she’s the rock and taylor swift rolled into one. Although to be fair to her, she has impressed me recently, so who knows. Still, between the 4 of them, sabrina and sun semm to be the ones with the higher potential.
Everyone is a by-product of their hopes and desires. They are things that are pushing them and holding them back.
Even Sun thinks Sabrina’s just a spot monkey. But I don’t know who to mock for their aspirations: Sabrina for trying to be John Cena or Sun for trying to be Jay Lethal. Oh wait, Kenny doesn’t realize Sun’s Rookie of the Year. That was easy.
If you don’t agree with Sun, then she thinks you’re wrong.
Well that’s a tough one, isn’t it? Personal definitions of excellence can of course vary, so none of their goals are wrong per se, but what is the measure of a wrestler?
Sun says championships are the measurement, but even that’s not as cut and dry as one might think. Who was the greater champion, Ric Flair with his 16 world title wins, or Bruno Sammartino with his 8 year reign?
Sabrina wants to be the most exciting wrestler, the one fans come to see, the one on the top of the card. Are all of those the same wrestler, though? Through much of the 80s, Hogan was the top draw and usually in the main event, but I don’t think he was ever the most exciting wrestler. By contrast, his most famous opponent, Andre the Giant, spent most of his career as a singular attraction unparalleled throughout the history of the business. He didn’t always main event, and he too generally wasn’t the MOST exciting wrestler, (although don’t let his later years in the WWF when his body was giving out on him fool you, Andre could work,) but for more than a decade and a half, his name on the card pretty much guaranteed a sellout crowd. Most exciting? That’s subjective as hell. If you asked me who I thought the most exciting wrestler was at different points in my life, you could probably have gotten any one of Johnny Saint, Mark Rocco, Ricky Steamboat, Dynamite Kid, Ultimate Warrior (I was young and American wrestling was so flash), Akira Hokuto, Aja Kong, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Christopher Daniels, Daniel Bryan, Megumi Kudo, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaka Kawada, Rey Mysterio Jr. et cetera.
Heck, even Brooke’s goal merits consideration. Guys like Terry Funk and Roddy Piper both got a lot out of their stints in Hollywood. Brock Lesnar went to UFC. And of course, there’s The Rock. Is he the greatest wrestler because he spent most of his short career on top, and got out early enough that he’s likely to be healthy and in shape his whole exceedingly wealthy life? Countless wrestlers have said the only reason to be in the wrestling business is money. If he hasn’t already topped the list, Dwayne Johnson will definitely be the wealthiest non-McMahon the business ever produced.
Krysten’s goals, though… I think her goals are the most admirabe of the lot of them. Which isn’t to say that KRYSTEN is necessarily the most admirable. Those goals stem from a place of insecurity, and her actions to try and achieve them have often been questionable, (if not outright foolish,) but the goal itself, to simply be the best wrestler, is pure. She’s not looking to check off some “most achievements” list like Sun, or be famous like Brooke, or be everyone’s favorite like Sabrina. She just wants to be the best wrestler between those ropes. It’s inherently impossible, because how can you REALLY know you’re the best, other than rampant egomania.
People are complicated creatures. They do bad things for stupid reasons. Krysten certainly has. But at the end of the day, I think, just as she says, she sets herself a high bar. Any number of people wake up every day and go about their lives looking to win approval, get the most of what they want, or have it bestowed upon them. I think it’s rather fewer who go out there trying to go that extra mile and be better.
That’s why it’s such a tragedy when those people fall short.
I’ve always wondered why people are so impressed with stats like “16 world title wins” … that totally means you lost it again at least 15 times…
I agree, holding the belt longer should count for more than how any times you won it.
All title reigns come to an end eventually. To retain, you have to emerge victorious EVERY TIME, but to lose, the challenger only has to get lucky once. Even the greats lose every once in a while. Then there’s things like Triple Threat or Money in the Bank style situations where the champion is at a disadvantage, designed to keep the title scene from getting stale. The trick is getting to the top again after you fall. That’s why the number of title reigns is a thing of pride.
Granted, long reigns ARE arguably even better, but still.
Tired of people saying that triple threat is such a disadvantage for the champion. Nine times out of ten it ends the same way. The two challengers fight among themselves and then the crafty champion swoops in and makes the quick pin or takes advantage for the win. Same old story.
You pegged it Scuffles. 16x champ spells inconsistent in my book
yeah the guy who held it for say two years straight is more impressive to me than the guy who won it four times in that same two year period. problem these days is that the top end of the roster is so thin that to get any sort of long reign you have to reuse opponents and the crowd gets bored of that quick these days. that I think was one reason why Punk turned heel midway through his year+ run, they ran out of heels so they had to make him heel so he could have fresher matchups with the face side of the roster.
Somehow I think wrestling co-opted team sports who have yearly champions. The Bulls or Packers, or Blackhawks being multiple time champions is impressive. But, it’s not like they lost their title in a game. The new year started.
Everyone brings up great points and the importance of context. Anderson Silva was UFC Middleweight champion for like, 8 years, but he only defended the title like, 8 times. I would think the quality of matches would weigh into as well as popularity.
The nice thing in showing the hopes and dreams of the ladies from an earlier time is to see how they may have changed/evolved those hopes and dreams of who might be sticking to their guns.
Nicely said, Callie.
I agree! I enjoyed it immensely.
Regarding the actual questions – respect and admiration are great things and worth trying for, but they aren’t things that you can measure, and they’re not something you can work on directly. You get them by striving for real goals in real ways. Aiming for excellence will earn you respect. Aiming for approval generally earns you contempt.
Things like respect and admiration are such an abstract concept that it really lies in the eye of the beholder. If that’s what Sabrina is looking for, you could probably guess that it would be high esteem and not just a pat on the back.
There’s an idea I’d like to explore about success and the difference in someone working super hard for the merit and someone who behaves provocatively to be noticed.
This pointy-table discussion shows their immaturity. It’s cute for that reason, in the same way a 5 y/o wanting to be an astronaut is cute. They don’t yet see the total picture, which means they are not world champ material. Yet.
To be THE champ you have to be the best wrestler. That means winning AND filling seats AND being the face of the organization. The public can love you or hate you – but they have to react to you and love it. You need to draw attention wherever you are, without antics or gimmicks. You need to lead and mentor. None of the girls has even one of these down yet, let alone the package. But they’re getting there and it’s lovely to see.
Btw Yvonne doesn’t have the total package either, which makes her a champ manque to be forgotten IMO. She only has the gold. For now…
I like how you’ve entirely scuttled your premise there at the end. :p
Haha Spoken like a another monkey. Errr… I mean manque.
Some of them, and I mean those on the roster too, are stumbling in an attempt to find their own way. Some are more successful than others.
I, personally, have to go with Brina in this little discussion. Holding gold is great, but meaningless if time erases you from memory. Just look at all those WWE Hall of Famers who never won the grand prize. Ricky Steamboat, George “The Animal” Steele, Ted Dibiase, Jake “The Snake” Roberts, Roddy Piper… These guys have left a permanent mark in the history of professional wrestling. Then you think about someone like say, Jack Swagger, who held the World Heavyweight Champion for about 82 days (Longer than all 3 of Mick Foley’s title reigns combined)…. and where do you think his name is going to be in 20 years.
Just remember. All that glitters is not gold. Some things shine brighter
Gold is good but there are plenty of legendary wrestlers that never held the gold in there career. And having he audience is good too but they tend to be fickle. They cheer for you one minuet and boo you the next. The answer must come somewhere in between, in what the wrestler truly represents. Something more they can do that’s more valuable than gold and will last longer than time.